Curse

Narcism · Feb 24, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Two questions:

1) Are you going to run Faintheartedness over Shadow of Fear?
2) Do you really need two attack speed debuffs with no recharge?

I agree that it's not a bad skill, at all. I just can't see myself running it over the alternatives.

Two attack speeds debuffs? Not really, I'm more a fan of the -3 degen for 37 seconds... throw some runes on there and you could hit -4 degen for 50 seconds. I'd definitely hit that.

Quote:

You don't get 3 swings in, you get 15+ swings in - 3 from every other attacker on your team. You only use the orders on a physical team where everyone can take advantage. In those situations, they're very good. Outside of those situations, they're rather poor.

But essentially, you're using 10 energy (let's assume you're using Order of Pain)

Quote:

Sacrifice 16..67 Health. For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe, that party member does an additional 3..13 damage.

So, you're sacrificing.. 67 health.. for someone to swing 3 times, and do 39 damage? Let's be generous and say they're using Hundred Blades on 2 people (4 hits), that's 6 hits.. for: 6x13 -> 78 damage at the cost of 67 health?

So:

Being generous and assuming they hit two people with Hundred Blades:

Order of the Pain:
10 Energy
Do 78 damage
Take 67 damage

Is there something that I don't understand about the skill? Because this is what I gathered.

Ensign · Feb 25, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Rigor Mortis is a tricky skill to analyze. On the surface, it's a counter to the various block and evade buffs that are flying around. But dig a bit deeper. If your team is being held off by Protection Monks, even on a target under full focus fire, is Rigor Mortis really going to be enough to tilt the scales back into your favor, or is it just too little, too late? If an opponent tosses up an evasion effect, have you really given yourself an advantage if you spend the resources to toss Rigor Mortis on him?

I think that the effect of Rigor Mortis is an important one to have in the game, but far too often I think it's a day late or a dollar short. It just isn't good enough at what it is supposed to do to be effective. When you look at all the other sexiness that the Necromancer has access to, powerful skills with powerful effects that force your opponent to deal with them, I don't think there's any contest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

Two attack speeds debuffs? Not really, I'm more a fan of
the -3 degen for 37 seconds... throw some runes on there and you could hit -4 degen for 50 seconds. I'd definitely hit that.

Well, you have to get to attribute level 19 to get that fourth pip. It's possible, but not likely.

I agree with you that it's some solid degen if you're at level 12 curses. If you can back that up with, say, level 12 Life Siphons I think you're in pretty good DoT shape. It's clearly a powerful skill, one that shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

The question is just if it's the right skill. If you're trying to be offensive then certainly, grab Faintheartedness, it's a solid skill. But generally, in my experience, it just isn't the skill you want. You want to be using the attack speed debuffs on packs of Warriors and Rangers, while you want to be dealing damage to their Monks and Mesmers. The DoT on a Warrior really doesn't matter since it's likely going to be unsupported, and if you just want to DoT their Monk you're better off with any of the various conditions, Life Siphon, Conjure Phantasm, or the like. It has a lot of utility, but I'd rather grab a pair of skills that are better at their respective jobs - Shadow of Fear for knocking out Warriors, and something from another class to deal damage.

Still, your point remains, at level 12 the skill has a lot of power and should be given a good, hard look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

Is there something that I don't understand about the skill? Because this is what I gathered.

What you're missing is that the Orders aren't target ally, they affect the entire party in one cast. So they aren't just 39 damage from 3 hits - they're 39 damage *per attacker on your team*. So if you have a pretty standard physical build with 2 Warriors and 3 Rangers, that's 5 teammates with +13 damage per hit for 5 seconds. 5 teammates can get off a lot of attacks in that period of time, particularly if they're using Hundred Blades, Dual Shot, Barrage, and speed buffs. Just from badly timed normal attacks you're looking at 12 attacks (2 per Ranger, 3 per Warrior) for 156 damage per cast, and with various speed buffs, good timing, and the right skills, you can easily get off 20-30 attacks, dealing 260-390 damage per cast in the process.

That's the power of the Orders, the power of multiplication.

Peace,
-CxE

Pharalon · Feb 25, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That's the power of the Orders, the power of multiplication.

Fear me, for I come unto this battle armed with the power of multiplication! All fractions shall bow down before the might of my scaling properties!

Zrave · Feb 25, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Wither: it's ok. Worth the elite slot when combined with malaise. Only drawback is the ends on 0 condition. NEVER use this alone, it's pretty much a complement to malaise. Absolute murder to a caster if they get low.

Superficially it seems hard to get to zero energy since you'll end up with the odd 2 or 3 energy that you can't spend. Once you consider that you can remove your focus (and even armor if desperate) to reach zero energy, it becomes apparent that when cast on a good player, Wither has a lifetime numbering in the few seconds.